Mormon Dating and the Woes of Being a "Y"SA Woman

My husband and I talk a lot. (I know. It’s weird. We’re married, and we’re still talking.) Sometimes we’re talking about the latest things we can do for fun, like buying a porcelain phrenology head, or how many trees are acceptable to have in a backyard, but usually we’re trying to solve the world’s problems single-handedly. Alright, let’s be honest. I’m the one with the God Complex. I’M trying to save the world, and he expresses his opinions on matters, recognizing that the entire human race is not his responsibility. I’m not quite convinced that I don’t carry the weight of the world on my shoulders, yet, but that’s another problem for another day and another therapist.

Yesterday we were talking about dating, and the struggles that single people have in dating, and especially Mormon dating, because that’s what we have experience with. (We’re so happy we’re not there anymore!) I have several amazing friends, female, who have never been asked on dates, never had a boyfriend, etc. These are return missionary type women, all strong, active women. They have brains and intelligence, good jobs, and HUMILITY. They are wonderful women.

Heck! Now, I may be vain and proud, but I considered myself as one of those women for many years. I was completely active in the church, intelligent, a future in mind, and couldn’t get a single man to ask me out, at times, for up to 516 days at a time. (Not that I was bitterly counting or anything. Yes, I probably wasn’t at a good point in my life to get married anyway, but this isn’t the point.) The ones that did ask me out I found were either A) good people, but we didn’t have enough in common to make it work – and yes, I went on several dates before making that informed decision, and was very generous and kind about my refusal to make it time and all eternity, or B) were really just interested in touching my butt and grabbing at me. Now, the fact that I turned some men down may make me sound like a jerk, or a terrible person for "friend-zoning" a couple guys. Though I have always been a stubborn person, I do think that I was pretty nice, if intimidating, but never willing to settle for less than my ultimate happiness. (Which I have now found. It’s worth waiting for the right one!)  

Now, there are so many young Mormon women who get married at 18, 19, or 20, who make it look like the whole dating scene in Mormonism is a piece of cake. But I would ask you to turn to any of those women who are passing 24, 25, 28, 29, 30, who are still single, and ask them how they feel about dating. The story you are going to hear is completely different.

These women’s stories are full of disappointment and let-downs. Now, let’s be honest, men’s dating lives can be just as disappointing and sorrowful as the next old maid’s, but let me give you a few thoughts to chew on.

Men ask women on dates. So many women, who hold those traditional views and values – that it’s the men’s role and responsibility to take this initiative, thereby portraying their ability to be presiders of a home and household – just have to, well, WAIT. I was one of those women. I’m loud and obnoxious when I want to be, and I refused, for the most part, to ask men on dates, because I wanted to know for sure that he had the confidence and the hutzpah to compete with me. Heaven forbid. I’m strong and I’m stubborn, and I wanted to make sure I would be equally yoked with a man who wasn’t paralyzed by crippling fear when it came to approaching me. I was kind, I was nice, I was funny, and I tried to be approachable, and that’s what I did to help. But ultimately, because I’m traditional, it was his job to take that first step in asking. In doing so, I could respect him. And for me, that respect was vital.

So I want you to step in the shoes of the woman who waits, day after day, for that guy to acknowledge her as more than just a fun FHE sister, for the cute kid you talk to every day in Biology to invite you for lunch after class, or for that kid at church who just keeps making eyes at you to DO SOMETHING about it! I want you to be the girl at home, who never gets asked on dates because she doesn’t fit the cheerleader mold, sit and watch as younger roommate after younger roommate goes out on a Friday night, breaks up with him the following Friday night, and still gets married the next spring. You begin to feel flawed. You begin to feel useless. You wonder what they have that you don’t, when truly, you are beautiful and wonderful, generous and kind. But you still wonder if you are so completely undesirable and horrible that you will spend the rest of forever alone.

Trust me. The girls have been there. And I understand that many boys have too, but for men, the game is only over when they say it is. Men can keep asking, keep trying, keep dating. But for the woman who sees only her reflection in the mirror on a consistent, reliable basis, you don’t have much evidence for hope. There are ladies who live old and alone, and then there are bachelor pads. But, for the most part, only one of them made a choice to live that way, and I think you know who it is.

So why do I think that the Mormon boys, in particular, have a harder time with dating? A wise co-worker of mine expressed a few main bullet points, which I would love to elaborate on. (And yes, she’s in her upper twenties and still not married, though she is dating someone.)

As she put it: “There’s less reward or gain in dating, for Mormon boys. All they get is chatting.” She’s talking about sex, here. (Oh my gosh, I said the word “sex” on my blog! I am so sorry!) Sex. 

Outside of the church, men have more initiative to wine and dine a girl in a non-marriage-committal relationship, because she’s more likely to give him something that he wants, in return. He’ll buy her flowers, take her out for a fancy dinner, walks in the moonlight, etc. Mormon boys just don’t seem to try that hard, because all they’ll get on a lucky night, dating a beautiful, good Mormon girl, is good conversation. That’s just not a lot of motivation to try!

I’ll never forget the date I got asked on where the boy came to pick me up. Yes, he came to the door, but then he showed me to the passenger-side seat, which was covered in dirty dishes, fast-food restaurant wrappers, and I didn’t even want to look further! He then proceeded to take me to his apartment, where he put a few burritos in a microwave, and wanted to play guitar hero with me. I’m sorry, but that’s not trying very hard at all. It wasn’t the fact that he didn’t spend money. It was the fact that he didn’t even try to portray himself as a desirable person, and I felt that he didn’t really value me! And I’ve seen it all over, in other boys dating other girls. It’s the guys who are oblivious to the needs and wants of the girl that they’re with. It’s the guy who wants to watch Transformers with her and his roommates, when the girl is obviously more interested in some one-on-one time with him, doing something SHE likes, too. But why should he try harder? It’s not like he’s going to get laid.

You don’t have to impress a woman with money. Let’s be honest, I went to the dollar theater once with a fabulous guy to watch Thor, and it was a fantastic date! Not fancy, and yet it was something we mutually felt was fun, and he was ATTENTIVE. He TRIED. He put forth EFFORT in seeing to my happiness and comfort. I felt very appreciated and worthwhile, and in return, it was easy to reciprocate.So no, men don’t have to literally “wine and dine,” but they do have to listen and be considerate. And due to more “substantial” motivation for dating outside of the church, Mormon men just have less motivation to put forth that extra effort, attention, listening, and consideration. Because it does require work. So why bother trying so hard, in order to have a conversation, when you can just spend the night at home and enjoy yourself with a nice full plate of taquitos, and talk to your roommates about whatever you want?

Commitment. Co-worker: “In our culture, dating has commitment tied to it. In other cultures, that’s much less so.” Basically, if you’re a Mormon and you’re dating someone, you’re looking at MARRIAGE. You’ve been raised from Primary through Young Mens, through your Mission and on, constantly being told that the whole plan of your entire mortal existence is for you to get married and have a family. PRESSURE. I mean, do you really want to think about a gamble for eternity on a Friday night after you’ve just spent 8 hours on the phones all day at work? No thank you.

I’m not saying that having that attitude in regards to first dates, or even fifth dates, is right. I think you should be able to have fun on a date with someone of the opposite gender without having to think about wedding plans and their potential parenting skills all the time! But in our culture, this is what we’ve been raised to value, and think about. And for a Mormon guy, that may just be too much drama to have to deal with, in order to ask that girl out for ONE DATE, just for fun.

Additionally, we, as Mormons, have grown up in a culture where “mingling” amongst men and women is SO EASY to do! Ward prayers, FHE activities, semesterly activities where your bishop plans an event to shove you all together, and prays that one date might come out of the whole event/dinner/dance. The activities are designed to force you to meet people of the opposite gender. But what really happens is that the mingling continues. The “hanging out” continues. You just keep mingling in large groups. You plan movie nights at your apartment, where there’s no pairing off, no commitment required, and you don’t have to be vulnerable in any way, shape, or form. You don’t have to date to get that female attention, validation, or proximity that you so desire.

So why are our women willing to take this? Why do good Mormon women allow Mormon men to be such sucky daters in general? Why does a Mormon woman accept a texting date request, the Guitar Hero/burrito date, and/or the cocky, big-headed jerk dater at all?

Because she never gets the chance to be asked out, and anything is better than nothing. The women who don’t prescribe to that notion are the ones who struggle the most with dating. They won’t take men’s flack, so they don’t get asked out at all!

I want you to look at some ratios with me. There are more women than men. That’s a statistical fact. I was one of those girls who dreamed of moving to the United Arab Emirates, where only 30% of the population is female, because the US and most other first world countries have more women than men. There are also more women in the church than there are men, and there are more WORTHY women in the church than worthy men. (We just keep losing men out of the dating pool, here!) And I want you to look at the fact that there are now more women in our colleges, more women EVERYWHERE. Men are a minority.

Men just don’t feel the pressure to pursue, because there are so many options to pick from. They don’t even have to work hard to find a woman who will be interested in them. The women are desperate!

Perhaps this issue is a little too close to home for me to talk about without bias, because I was there for so many years, hating men for sitting around twiddling their thumbs, not dating anyone at all, or choosing the girls who WOULD break their hearts, like they didn’t know any better, whilst rejecting me through their inaction. Maybe I am a little too biased because I have so many girlfriends who have been there too, being led on by guys who expressed interest, but never asked them or anyone else out, because they got enough attention through their “game night” events. Maybe I’m too biased because I know such fabulous women who have never had a real dating experience at all, with a real man who was willing to love her for who she was, and care for her for who she was, when I could do nothing but love and care for them, for their hearts, their lives, their integrity, and for the amazing people that they are. I have wondered how no earth no one could see that!

I’ve only been able to conclude, through my years of observation in my own life, of the lives of my friends, and the women I hear about and talk to in single's wards I've been in, that it's because Mormon boys suck at dating. I could go into the theories my husband and I have on which Mormon boys make the suckiest daters, versus the Mormon boys who actually make great daters, but I'd hate to make any of those sucky daters feel bad. Poor sucky daters. Poor indecisive, non-committal, "victim", sucky daters. 

Yeah, no. I feel bad for the good single Mormon gals.

#YesAllWomen - For Men

This last weekend my husband and I decided to go camping. We spent the night by our campfire, then the next morning decided to go fishing.

I was looking pretty average. I was wearing a tomboy military cap to cover my messy tangled hair, a pair of oversized Wal-Mart moccasins, a hospital t-shirt, and had doused myself in approximately a cup and a half of insect repellent. As my husband put it, I looked and smelled like camping.

My husband was down by the water, watching his fishing pole, while I was putting another worm on my hook, when the truck went past. Two men wearing sunglasses drove by, leering at me, as one of them whistled in my direction.

Quite taken aback, I turned to my husband in shock. “Did you see that?” I asked. “What?” “Those guys just whistled at me.”

Of course, my husband loves me. I can’t remember his reply, but it was something along the lines of winking at me in an, “I totally agree with them,” way.

I wasn’t really sure how to take it. Yes, I could have been quite flattered that I had far from tried, yet had gained unsolicited attention from a couple biker-types driving past, in all my sweatpant-ed glory. I could have been flattered that I was seen as desirable, in the least! I felt, and probably looked, like a homeless vagrant that hadn’t showered in years. And yet I had earned a whistle of approval.

But the more I thought about it, the truth was, I was just really pissed off. I was pissed off that I could be OBVIOUSLY not interested, fishing with my HUSBAND, and still be treated like I was some token prize or item to admire. They knew nothing about me, nothing of who I was, and yet they felt they had the right to pass a judgment on me. My body, no less, because it was obvious that’s what they were judging.

What pissed me off more was the fact that there had been two of them. They were in mutual agreement that that was how they could treat me. They could treat me as a fine butt and a chest, and as friends, this was an activity for them to participate in, while driving past.

Now, forgive me, because I’m going to get heated.

Why the freak would anyone think that was okay?! Now, I know there’s all this #NotAllMen business going on, but if some dude gets away with this crap in front of their other guy friends, then we have a failure in society at large, with men not taking responsibility for valuing and respecting women. Just because you’re not the one with the disrespecting attitude, doesn’t mean that you’re not allowing it to continue, by not standing up against it.

If you’re hanging out with your guy friends, and one of them cracks a joke at a woman’s expense, either sexual or derogatory in some other nature, if you are a woman-loving man, you will stand up for her. You don’t have to know her personally. You don't even have to know if she even has a name. Because she does. All women have names, all women have stories, and if you allow one of your buddies to ridicule and make mockery of a woman, like a thing to be itemized and categorized, or used for their own personal entertainment and/or self-esteem,  you're no better than they are. A man takes his calling as a protector and defender of virtue, women, and families seriously. (And yes, you are meant to be our protectors, or did you forget? It is a responsibility and gift given to you by God.) You should be attacking any assault on those traditional values like a fat kid on cake, the men of Dunharrow on an Oliphant, or like goats on a tree.

Am I saying the women are innocent? No, not all of them are. Some women are just as good at male-bashing as men are about women. Trust me, it's true. We can rate on a scale of 1-10 just as well as the next man can. Does it mean we can or should act possessive or lusty about it? Absolutely not. 

Equally, and I may get stoned for saying it, women may start the ill behavior towards them by the way that they view themselves. I'm sorry, but no porn star has the right to get upset when men don't respect her. She doesn't respect herself, and yes, heaven forgive me for saying it, she's asking for it. Similarly, girls who "dress to impress" are merely objectifying themselves, drawing attention to legs or cleavage. They're asking for attention in those areas, by highlighting those qualities themselves. But what does it mean for men, knowing that women aren't all innocent?

It shouldn't make a difference at all! Because in the long run, it's not about her at all. It's about you, and who you are, and how you're willing to think and talk about other people. You're responsible for your own actions. And if you're allowing those actions, behaviors and insults to continue in the lives of those who you mutually respect and appreciate, there is equally something wrong with you. 

One of my favorite quotes of all times, and don't ask me where I heard it, is: "Society will sink as low as the women allow it to." Unfortunately for women such as myself, the team of women that we're on, due to our natural biolgoy, tends to be, frankly, SUCKING at upholding values, at this moment. If it were up to me, it wouldn't be this way. But unfortunately, it's Miley Cyrus on the music videos, models on the runway, and celebrities' daughters running bare-chested around the city, trying to make a statement. So no matter how loudly I scream out "integrity!" and "morals!", those women are going to keep letting in slack on the line of our sinking society. The whistling, leering, AND WORSE, continues, because some women encourage it. 

That's why it's up to our men. You have no idea how important you are. So long as you keep accepting the "status quo" however, keep allowing poor behaviors of the past to carry on into our future, you are a part of the problem. So it's time to take a stand. Men who bash, who use and abuse women, who slander their names, their characters or their worth, ought to be very much alone in what they do. The men who think only of themselves, of their own pleasures and desires should feel like the outcasts. 

It's time for men to be bold about their loyalties. It's time for them to unashamedly state what is right and what is wrong. It is time for them to refuse any hint of male dominion and feminine slander. It's time to view women not as your extreme opposite, either enemy or pleasurable reward, but rather as your equals, your mothers, your sisters, your daughters, your wives. It is time to rethink what love really means, especially in a world of darkness and clouded judgement. 

Stop being a part of the problem. Stop accepting things as they way they are, and instead demand we try harder, look a little further, and step a little more confidently on the paths that lead to God, to strength, and to family. Encourage your friends, whether men or women, to respect and love a little more, and look for the good, not the bad. 

I am more than my body. I am more than any combination of my good days or bad. I am more than my weaknesses, my strengths, my family or career. I am more than my car, my house, my city, or country. I am more than your opinions of myself, or even my own. I am worth even more than my life. 

I am a child of God. So are you. We deserve to be treated as such - no more, no less. 

I think that's fair.